tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2830084253401570472.post3856459414950287615..comments2024-03-28T09:22:36.967+13:00Comments on Offsetting Behaviour: War of agesEric Cramptonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15831696523324469713noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2830084253401570472.post-43088045700117609272012-07-16T16:49:13.624+12:002012-07-16T16:49:13.624+12:00Interestingly, the non-working always depend on th...Interestingly, the non-working always depend on the working. Sure, they<br /> have capital, but in reality capital only has value in the absence of <br />inflation or default on debts. That is to say, if there are too few <br />people working, and too many people trying to live of capital, what <br />happens is the returns to capital drop, and the returns to labour <br />increase. <br /><br />Ultimately what looks like a financial problem becomes some sort of <br />supply demand curve, probably represented through price inflation.<br /><br />Or, to put it another way, in a savings based retirement model wage <br />inflation benefits the young and disadvantages the old. I think.PaulLnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2830084253401570472.post-53631894577408576072012-07-14T21:01:23.364+12:002012-07-14T21:01:23.364+12:00As long as people, if left to their own devices, a...As long as people, if left to their own devices, actually do invest for their future then you are likely correct. However, unless mandated through a scheme such as Kiwi Saver, a lot folk won't save for their future. And then it comes down to a question of ideology. Should a government help out those sufficiently short-sighted, unsophisticated, or unable to save enough for their retirement? My lefty socialist leanings tell me that yes, it should. As the saying goes, a society can be measured by how it treats its weakest members. However I am comfortable with some level of means testing.Latsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2830084253401570472.post-32663103866516783312012-07-13T13:10:49.170+12:002012-07-13T13:10:49.170+12:00Only where the median voter does better through pu...Only where the median voter does better through public transfers than from self-funded investments.EricCramptonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2830084253401570472.post-12281739192771338192012-07-13T12:23:05.349+12:002012-07-13T12:23:05.349+12:00Lets not forget that young people will most likely...Lets not forget that young people will most likely eventually become old people, so in a sense it is in their best interests to support government funded care for the aged. One day they'll need it themselves.Latsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2830084253401570472.post-39090443199512846512012-07-13T10:50:25.343+12:002012-07-13T10:50:25.343+12:00Nicely done -- I wasn't aware of this survey q...Nicely done -- I wasn't aware of this survey question. Your post ties in with the point I made that retirees have always depended on the younger generations. I just wonder how that might change as the bill goes up.Billhttp://gropingtobethlehem.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2830084253401570472.post-36458667044153070702012-07-13T10:46:59.683+12:002012-07-13T10:46:59.683+12:00Who knew it could be so hard to pretend to be insa...Who knew it could be so hard to pretend to be insanely reckless in order to force a perfectly reasonable outcome? Heath Ledger made it look so easy...keith_nghttp://twitter.com/keith_ngnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2830084253401570472.post-75973198018011621292012-07-13T05:57:44.655+12:002012-07-13T05:57:44.655+12:00I'm not saying the numbers make change impossi...I'm not saying the numbers make change impossible. Just that they make it awfully hard to make any kind of credible threats like "Oh, if you don't compromise to something reasonable, those crazy Gen Y and Gen X folks will vote away the whole thing, just watch us!"EricCramptonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2830084253401570472.post-10359883079780527442012-07-13T02:10:03.324+12:002012-07-13T02:10:03.324+12:00The question was: "Generally, do you think it...The question was: "Generally, do you think it should be or should not be the government’s responsibility to provide or ensure a decent living standard for all old people?" - with the word "decent" in there, it's pretty hard to say no to.<br /><br />Having said that, I tried running the same numbers as you. In 2008:<br /><br /><br />Definitely should<br /><br />47.2% (Young)<br />51.1% (Mid)<br />47.6% (Old)<br />Should<br />46.2<br />42.7<br />46.9<br />Shouldn't4.432.2<br />In 2011:<br />Definitely should41.444.940.3Should46.646.349.3Shouldn't7.95.75<br />Certainly looks like a shift...keith_nghttp://twitter.com/keith_ngnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2830084253401570472.post-21882719596279939622012-07-12T20:25:17.618+12:002012-07-12T20:25:17.618+12:00That's all true. But the pub opinion stuff mea...That's all true. But the pub opinion stuff means young folks can never make credible threats of awful stuff to get to a compromise position of reasonable spending.EricCramptonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2830084253401570472.post-38385329372173143082012-07-12T19:03:08.663+12:002012-07-12T19:03:08.663+12:00Eric, the question 'Should the government supp...Eric, the question 'Should the government support old people?' is a very different one to 'Should old people get excessively generous (compared to other beneficiaries) non-means-tested super at the age of 65, free public transport including to Waiheke Island, and grotesquely expensive medical treatment, such as heart bypass surgery, near the end of their lives?' Many young people are unaware of the true extent of transfers to old people.dragonflynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2830084253401570472.post-30282891634821602152012-07-12T17:40:00.475+12:002012-07-12T17:40:00.475+12:00We have a problem and that is for sure, Eric, but ...We have a problem and that is for sure, Eric, but dudes I am one of the gifted because I will die rather than be a burden, but I can not say this for others.<br /> New Zealand is in serious trouble about this thing, because only poor old people stay here,sucking the welfare state, and the rest are in Australia.<br />And if you read your statistic and think that young people 47% care about their parents, you are dreaming. .... As the truck driver said to me when my dear father died, and my siblings rushed in to grab the goods leaving me the work behind, he said " first the grief and then quickly the greed"<br />and so it was even in my own family , my brother wealthy as he is took more and so my sister, and I did the bloody work.<br />And now over here in Thailand there is no inter generational warfare, you just pay for you parents and that is that. And that is why the girls are there in Pattya stealing money from idiot Westerners.<br />We have a disturbing lack of care of our elderly. Send them away to the old people's farm, visit yearly or sometimes,and wait till dead, collect. Not all New Zealanders are like this just most.peterquixotenoreply@blogger.com