tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2830084253401570472.post4318231891852858611..comments2024-03-28T09:22:36.967+13:00Comments on Offsetting Behaviour: ImmigrantsEric Cramptonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15831696523324469713noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2830084253401570472.post-35998617530453144342011-09-07T09:16:09.519+12:002011-09-07T09:16:09.519+12:00@Michael: It's not necessarily wrong to oppose...@Michael: It's not necessarily wrong to oppose immigration; I can think of a couple of non-crazy arguments that are respectable. But folks who berate immigrants in the street for their country of birth are vile.Eric Cramptonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15831696523324469713noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2830084253401570472.post-25016190051598834092011-09-06T18:12:31.374+12:002011-09-06T18:12:31.374+12:00too liberal by far dudes, sack this Mut she has no...too liberal by far dudes, sack this Mut she has no place in our education system, replace by imported white personpaul scotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15675247055484136242noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2830084253401570472.post-77537708665799766942011-09-06T17:29:14.499+12:002011-09-06T17:29:14.499+12:00I think the neutral tone just disappeared in the l...I think the neutral tone just disappeared in the last comment!<br /><br />And, of course, there is little or no evidence of economic benefits to NZers from the high levels of immigration to NZ in the last 20 years (or, as the Productivity Commission in Aus concluded, of gains to Australians from the immigration to Australia).Michael Reddellnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2830084253401570472.post-26607501391323822172011-09-06T11:52:24.903+12:002011-09-06T11:52:24.903+12:00@Luis: Anecdote has it that those worst treated ar...@Luis: Anecdote has it that those worst treated are Asian immigrants, and by exactly the group you're citing. <br /><br />Can't we put in a tax on "Being bogan [nz term equivalent to redneck]"? The negative externalities there seem large.Eric Cramptonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15831696523324469713noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2830084253401570472.post-74169654015431726842011-09-06T11:45:03.716+12:002011-09-06T11:45:03.716+12:00Funnily enough I've faced strong negative reac...Funnily enough I've faced strong negative reactions more often than Eric (I have a darker skin and am more immigrant-looking than him), but never from Maori. They tend to come from low socio-economic status white people, which coincides with the experience of some of my colleagues.<br /><br />@Lemmus I do disagree with Mutu's opinions but, at least in the newspaper note, I do not consider them "racial hatred". Clearly Mutu's expressions are not beyond criticism, but calling for her resignation seems to me over the top.Luishttp://apiolaza.netnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2830084253401570472.post-37037674879559298912011-09-06T09:08:09.287+12:002011-09-06T09:08:09.287+12:00@Susmeet: Controlling for income, job outlook, emp...@Susmeet: Controlling for income, job outlook, employment status, education - none of those do much to bridge the gap between Maori and non-Maori on the desirability of immigration, at least in the NZES data. Controlling for beliefs about the economic effects of immigration reduces the gap by about a fifth. So I'm not sure that the evidence is consistent with economic disenfranchisement. If I had to guess, it has more to do with general views about land theft and the treaty process.<br /><br />I try for neutral tone on such things. Keeps me out of trouble. Here's the data; make of it what you will. Fun anecdote though: the only time I ever encountered a Kiwi telling me to get the hell back to my own country, the full quote ran something like "I'm New Zealand Maori. You don't belong here. Go the hell back to your own country." Only has happened once in eight years though. And only when I politely enquired why he was doing power turns on our snow-covered, construction-closed street while we were sledding down the driveway with the kids.<br /><br />@Duncan: It's not inconsistent with NZES, but you're definitely right that we can't attribute reasons for immigration beliefs from the NZES, or at least I've not seen how to do it as yet. More work could tease some of it out - probably controlling for beliefs on treaty process and such. But they don't ask questions like "Do you think white immigrants are generally racists?" <br /><br />@Lemmus: The one leads to the other, but there are many paths to the other. And I'd certainly be happy to critique Mutu's belief that white immigrants are white supremacists. I'd not use that critique to call for her sacking though.Eric Cramptonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15831696523324469713noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2830084253401570472.post-54548532760742784242011-09-06T08:27:24.052+12:002011-09-06T08:27:24.052+12:00I'll have to agree with Duncan above: opposing...I'll have to agree with Duncan above: opposing immigration and the racial hatred expressed by Mutu (assuming she's quoted correctly) are two different sports. I'm fine with employment protection for academics who express crass opinions - arguably that's the only good reason to have tenure - but that doesn't mean such opinions are beyond criticism.LemmusLemmushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00917054221547240969noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2830084253401570472.post-33889153570595102011-09-06T07:36:58.614+12:002011-09-06T07:36:58.614+12:00"But Mutu's views are hardly idiosyncrati..."But Mutu's views are hardly idiosyncratic among Maori, at least as far as the NZES data suggests."<br /><br />I'm not sure you can extrapolate from the NZES data that Maori believe that white immigrants bring an attitude of white supremacy, which seems to be the portion of her commentary that is most controversial.<br /><br />Of course it is a stitch up by the SST, once they got the report I imagine they ran straight off to see Mutu and gleefully awaited her comments.Duncannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2830084253401570472.post-45915012230068734612011-09-06T07:19:47.636+12:002011-09-06T07:19:47.636+12:00Illuminating article, and I really appreciate your...Illuminating article, and I really appreciate your neutral tone. There is something that always bothers me about people's reaction to studies that outline a group's attitude. Most people need to understand that it is pointless to express indignation, or judge the morality of the opinion shared by a group of people. If the opinion is borne out of economic disenfranchisement, and if we want to change the opinion, fix the root of the problem. Do not moralize.sumeethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12020052066267764142noreply@blogger.com