tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2830084253401570472.post271759191008548085..comments2024-03-28T09:22:36.967+13:00Comments on Offsetting Behaviour: Causality revisitedEric Cramptonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15831696523324469713noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2830084253401570472.post-48210922842904242722010-01-18T11:19:30.091+13:002010-01-18T11:19:30.091+13:00I wonder what would happen if one of our brewers s...I wonder what would happen if one of our brewers started airing ads that prominently featured some of the research that suggests social moderate drinkers earn more than abstainers, complete with footnotes....Eric Cramptonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15831696523324469713noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2830084253401570472.post-37038519384372628392010-01-14T17:19:03.788+13:002010-01-14T17:19:03.788+13:00I think the alcohol comparison is something we'...I think the alcohol comparison is something we're not going to get rid of, and NORML do need a different strategy. I think there's a greater need amongst the politicians to pay attention to public perceptions and the Single Convention on Narcotic Drugs than to common sense. <br /><br />I do think that alcohol advertising and promotion needs to be subject to tighter regulations - actually, advertising and standards on television and in the media altogether. There's a key standard in the advertising rules on alcohol in a lot of European countries - you can't advertise alcohol like it's going to make you socially or sexually successful, or more attractive. In the UK, you also can't feature people apparently under the age of 25. There's a number of commercials in circulation in NZ that break this standard. From a social norms perspective, advertising can be a great influence on behaviour, but banning it outright won't change a culture, just like banning cannabis hasn't changed that part of NZ culture. <br /><br />The NORML argument is confused because it has no clear outcome - you're right, they make the comparison, but they don't give a clear direction to lead out of the comparison and into the point that harm reduction isn't achieved by banning a substance.Chrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06728572650611483818noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2830084253401570472.post-80435913104819970262010-01-14T16:45:10.476+13:002010-01-14T16:45:10.476+13:00I worry less about the alcohol submission and more...I worry less about the alcohol submission and more about the overall strategy of "look how bad alcohol is and it's legal, why can't marijuana be legal too since it's safer?" when the pols' ears shut before the comma....Eric Cramptonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15831696523324469713noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2830084253401570472.post-56234098673245570922010-01-14T16:36:27.595+13:002010-01-14T16:36:27.595+13:00Their submission pushes on the whole for greater r...Their submission pushes on the whole for greater regulation rather than the status quo or lesser regulation: a ban on advertising and "glorification" of alcohol is hardly liberal.Eric Cramptonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15831696523324469713noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2830084253401570472.post-80386301483526260472010-01-14T15:47:45.901+13:002010-01-14T15:47:45.901+13:00I think due correction is appropriate regarding NO...<a href="http://norml.org.nz/modules.php?name=AvantGo&file=print&sid=697" rel="nofollow">I think due correction is appropriate</a> regarding NORML's attitude toward alcohol.Chrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06728572650611483818noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2830084253401570472.post-87899368546554367942010-01-14T10:39:53.631+13:002010-01-14T10:39:53.631+13:00@bgc: I certainly wouldn't disagree that drink...@bgc: I certainly wouldn't disagree that drink driving is far riskier than sober driving, or that alcohol is causal in some offences. But some (small) proportion of drink-driving accidents would have taken place even if the driver had been sober and some (much larger) proportion of crimes would have taken place even if the criminal had been sober. So, in the costs of alcohol report that I previously fisked, where the consultants figured that each and every crime where the criminals, on survey, said that alcohol had contributed at least "somewhat" to offending would disappear in the absence of alcohol, I pushed the bar up a bit to ones where offenders said it contributed at least "a lot". Both are very imperfect standards, but I think mine is more realistic.<br /><br />I could pretty easily be convinced that marijuana is safer than alcohol. But I worry that the strategy of demonizing the other intoxicant results only in the regulation and prohibition of both.Eric Cramptonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15831696523324469713noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2830084253401570472.post-89289107509461108352010-01-13T20:04:31.599+13:002010-01-13T20:04:31.599+13:00I sort of take your point, but there is shoals of ...I sort of take your point, but there is shoals of evidence that alcohol _causes_ road accidents and violence; and indeed this is precisely what would be expected from a knowledge of its psychopharmacology. <br /><br />Taking all the causal evidence, alcohol really is one of the worst drugs - harming and killing users (medically and by accidents and violence) in very larger numbers, and also large numbers of bystanders, and causing a huge amount of social pathology - especially in the UK and Ireland.<br /><br />http://www.hedweb.com/bgcharlton/drugsub.htmlBruce Charltonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09615189090601688535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2830084253401570472.post-23714407037420322442010-01-13T18:12:27.087+13:002010-01-13T18:12:27.087+13:00Yeah, I saw this article on TV last night, and mus...Yeah, I saw this article on TV last night, and mused it wouldn't be long to pop up on this blog. <br /><br />Your points on causuality is on the button though. Because you can't have data on everything to answer every question, policy decisions (public & private) usually get made by influential anecdotal evidence, or formed through a consensus process of people 'directly involved' in the problem policy is meant to address. Those discussions probably start off with everybody convincing each other about issue causality when the skant available information is purely correlation. Its worse in consensus decision-making, with the potential for peer-pressure to slip in.James Hoganhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05832675898178869721noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2830084253401570472.post-24066921014627937762010-01-13T16:35:00.935+13:002010-01-13T16:35:00.935+13:00Yeah, it's the old one: one-third of road acci...Yeah, it's the old one: one-third of road accidents involve alcohol, so two-thirds must be caused by plain old stupidity. We'd have a much better road accident rate if we cracked down on stupidity.<br /><br />Your shifting standards paragraph reminds me of <a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/nov/02/drugs-alan-johnson-david-nutt" rel="nofollow">this complete bollocks</a> by a serving MP and PC. <br /><br />Note the line in there:<br /><br />"People have died as a result of taking ecstasy and committed crimes under the influence of cannabis."<br /><br />I can only think of one crime someone under the influence of cannabis might commit, and that's possession of cannabis.Chrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06728572650611483818noreply@blogger.com