tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2830084253401570472.post3775979477226394121..comments2024-03-28T09:22:36.967+13:00Comments on Offsetting Behaviour: Alcohol and social choiceEric Cramptonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15831696523324469713noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2830084253401570472.post-22155068520767320522012-05-12T19:47:36.437+12:002012-05-12T19:47:36.437+12:00The bill contains the split age.
Amendments to t...The bill contains the split age. <br /><br />Amendments to the bill will propose 18 and 20<br /><br />It's the order of those amendments that might matter.peteremcchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02675527971846060507noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2830084253401570472.post-55898053819638667332012-05-10T15:52:46.007+12:002012-05-10T15:52:46.007+12:00Yep, and my point is that I don't actually thi...Yep, and my point is that I don't actually think there are more drunk annoying teens now than there were in my day, or probably my dad's day either. There is just more public outcry about the behaviour because we see it on the 6 o'clock news more often.<br />As for parental consent, who is going to want to be outed publicly as the parent who ok'd their 15 year old have access to booze at a party? Realistically I expect most parents to refuse consent even if they are happy for their kids to have a beer or two, just to avoid being treated as a pariah should the consent be made public.Latsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2830084253401570472.post-65870832571380130342012-05-10T13:42:31.878+12:002012-05-10T13:42:31.878+12:00National's made a sensible proposal around req...National's made a sensible proposal around requiring parental consent to supply alcohol to someone under the purchase age. I'd expect then that underaged kids found in possession of alcohol where they didn't have that consent could be in trouble, and so they'd be a fair bit more discreet about their drinking. And it's the drunk annoying teens that impose costs on other people, not the drinking per se.Eric Cramptonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15831696523324469713noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2830084253401570472.post-37684834570730257922012-05-10T13:39:51.896+12:002012-05-10T13:39:51.896+12:00Fine, but it still loses to split in any sequence ...Fine, but it still loses to split in any sequence of pairwise votes given current numbers. You'd need C supporters to outnumber (A+B) for a "Raise it to 20" outcome.Eric Cramptonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15831696523324469713noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2830084253401570472.post-75490910312534052002012-05-10T12:49:38.228+12:002012-05-10T12:49:38.228+12:00The split age comes off as wishy-washy. A hard lin...The split age comes off as wishy-washy. A hard line of 20 makes it look like your tough and serious, again without annoying people who actually vote.kiwi davehttp://www.google.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2830084253401570472.post-4289295693319374332012-05-10T11:58:13.790+12:002012-05-10T11:58:13.790+12:00I agree completely with Kiwi Dave here, this is fo...I agree completely with Kiwi Dave here, this is for show only. I'd argue that there isn't really a problem anyway, teenagers have been getting drunk and doing stupid things for as long as there have been teenagers and alcohol. The late teen years are a time when we traditionally leave the nest, cut the apron strings, and experience as much as life has to offer as possible. It is also the time when many young people are free to experiment with alcohol and other drugs. And the overwhelming majority have a really good time and come through it with no problems, much as has been happening for generations. I suspect the issue is one of awareness and perception, the various forms of media are now so all-pervasive that the issue with teen drinking looks a lot worse than it really is.<br /><br />The only downside to 18 vs 20 is the potential flow on effect. Under a 20 yr age restriction you tend to get 18 yr olds who look 20 getting ready access to booze, but those younger tend to get ID'd. Under an 18 yr age restriction this level is potentially lowered by a couple of years, so plenty of 16 year olds can probably buy alcohol where previously they may not have been able to. But as always the onus needs to be on retailers checking ID's. And if the teen buying booze uses a fake ID or comes up with some other way of getting around the restriction the retailer shouldn't be lambasted as long as he/she took reasonable precautions to follow the rules. Individual responsibility.Latsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2830084253401570472.post-81023407652284022252012-05-10T10:08:04.386+12:002012-05-10T10:08:04.386+12:00True. But I'd still think that pushes to a spl...True. But I'd still think that pushes to a split age, not an increase to 20.Eric Cramptonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15831696523324469713noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2830084253401570472.post-12213046824336928522012-05-10T07:00:46.528+12:002012-05-10T07:00:46.528+12:00Update: If this policy winds up being part of a br...<i>Update: If this policy winds up being part of a broader logroll on a multidimensional alcohol package, then all bets are off.</i><br /><br />I suspect it isn't, though. The age restriction has the advantage of allowing MPs to be seen to do something about binge drinking without actually annoying their constituents who like to drink with price increases or restricted availability. Moves that might really decrease drinking, such as a big increase in excise taxes or a ban on supermarket beer and wine sales would be deeply unpopular, whereas placing the burden of the restritions on a fairly small and politically insignificant group (18-20) is the best of both worlds for pols.kiwi davehttp://www.google.comnoreply@blogger.com