tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2830084253401570472.post4444492322836443757..comments2024-03-28T09:22:36.967+13:00Comments on Offsetting Behaviour: Partial and General food equilibriaEric Cramptonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15831696523324469713noreply@blogger.comBlogger19125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2830084253401570472.post-56719862693476430702012-01-18T09:26:32.436+13:002012-01-18T09:26:32.436+13:00It doesn't rule out every case. We can presume...It doesn't rule out every case. We can presume, when we see real and obvious external costs being imposed with diffused bearers of the cost, that transactions costs are probably getting in the way of things. Like when the dairy farmer dumps effluent into the ditch and makes a mess of Lake Ellesmere. The harms are pretty obvious. But if I just start claiming that the Beehive's particular shade of beige imposes a trillion dollar's worth of psychic costs on me and that it's consequently efficient to repaint it blue, folks ought to be pretty sceptical.Eric Cramptonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15831696523324469713noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2830084253401570472.post-52449459556865913512012-01-18T00:13:07.179+13:002012-01-18T00:13:07.179+13:00Doesn't that pretty much rule out the case for...Doesn't that pretty much rule out the case for government intervention for any externality? If there's Coasian bargaining taking place, it's a good sign that no government intervention is necessary.Henry Askinhttp://danieltarmac.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2830084253401570472.post-46665487214114123502012-01-17T10:38:26.151+13:002012-01-17T10:38:26.151+13:00The null ought be that psychic externalities don&#...The null ought be that psychic externalities don't exist; evidence of payment is sufficient to overcome the null. Losses that way are bounded; losses from mistakenly accepting a lunatic's psychic utility claims are potentially unbounded. Robust policy is to ignore them.Eric Cramptonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15831696523324469713noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2830084253401570472.post-25735111606248960472012-01-17T10:30:22.487+13:002012-01-17T10:30:22.487+13:00Not if Nazi enjoyment of the Holocaust would be su...Not if Nazi enjoyment of the Holocaust would be substantially diminished with the knowledge that their victims were getting paid. It's like assuming prostitution is always a substitute for rape.Henry Askinhttp://danieltarmac.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2830084253401570472.post-41750276186806745122012-01-17T09:48:11.996+13:002012-01-17T09:48:11.996+13:00Psychic externalities are one reason I really like...Psychic externalities are one reason I really like Buchanan/Stubblebine's distinction between potentially Pareto relevant externalities and ones that are actually Pareto relevant. If the Nazis really valued the Holocaust that much, they would have been able to pay their victims sufficiently to make the whole thing happen voluntarily. Use of force says that they violated Pareto.Eric Cramptonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15831696523324469713noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2830084253401570472.post-86738965413998926712012-01-17T09:43:03.369+13:002012-01-17T09:43:03.369+13:00@Kimble: I didn't say anything about "all...@Kimble: I didn't say anything about "allow"; I said I'd draw my own line about whether an animal ought be eaten based at least partially on the animal's capacity for self-awareness, sentience, etc. But I fear I could never give up bacon even if somebody does someday prove pigs to be more intelligent than we reckon.<br /><br />@Lats: Food norms are complicated.Eric Cramptonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15831696523324469713noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2830084253401570472.post-49422078581193598662012-01-16T21:20:11.029+13:002012-01-16T21:20:11.029+13:00If we assume that most people would get significan...If we assume that most people would get significantly more psychic disutility from the knowledge you are raising baby slaves vs. eating animals, then it works out. Though, I don't really like psychic utility arguments because you can use them to pretty much assume any conclusion you want. ("The Holocaust was utility-enhancing because the psychic utility to the Nazis was greater than the costs to others"). Then again, I suppose it's an issue with utilitarianism in general, you just have to draw some kind of line for patently silly utility judgements.Henry Askinhttp://danieltarmac.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2830084253401570472.post-19906463694283966792012-01-16T16:47:48.747+13:002012-01-16T16:47:48.747+13:00@Eric - Fair enough. I think I'd feel a bit un...@Eric - Fair enough. I think I'd feel a bit uneasy if somebody offered me a plate of chimpanzee, but I'd also turn up my nose at dog or cat, although not for any reason other than I like dogs and cats, and would feel weird about eating something that would normally be a pet. However the same prejudice doesn't extend to horse, which I haven't eaten, but would happily chow down on, no doubt much to the horror of the horse lovers out there.Latsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2830084253401570472.post-81283721000527718632012-01-16T16:05:36.449+13:002012-01-16T16:05:36.449+13:00So what you are saying is that, thanks to Creation...So what you are saying is that, thanks to Creationists, we are only allowed to eat the stupider legumes?Kimblenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2830084253401570472.post-26687091291905682472012-01-16T14:06:03.530+13:002012-01-16T14:06:03.530+13:00If I had any weight/health problems, I'd go pa...If I had any weight/health problems, I'd go paleo-ancestral before anything else. I'm not that far from paleo on average most of the time anyway; my main weight problem is avoiding weight loss. I only eat things I reckon are tasty, but that doesn't put me crazy far from paleo anyway. Hence my problem in keeping weight on.Eric Cramptonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15831696523324469713noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2830084253401570472.post-37010725795275534842012-01-16T14:02:35.554+13:002012-01-16T14:02:35.554+13:00Thing is, I'm happy enough with the folks who ...Thing is, I'm happy enough with the folks who actually are religious about it and just say it's wrong to eat meat. That's not crazy. Most of us reckon cannibalism is wrong; the line should probably push back to animals that are at least as intelligent as the least intelligent person - dolphins, elephants, maybe octopus.Eric Cramptonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15831696523324469713noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2830084253401570472.post-82535295830082897502012-01-16T12:33:49.658+13:002012-01-16T12:33:49.658+13:00You should ask Eli how his Paleo/Ancestral diet is...You should ask Eli how his Paleo/Ancestral diet is going. Gary Taubes is also a source of lots of information on this new approach to thinking about food. Look out for his EconTalk (or fellow economist Arthur DeVany's talk). Still a lot of evidence to gather but it would be a real about face if the solution to obesity was more meat (or at least less sugars with it).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2830084253401570472.post-8562599736411584352012-01-16T12:23:57.594+13:002012-01-16T12:23:57.594+13:00It's not an argument that you can win though E...It's not an argument that you can win though Eric because you are arguing against people that are more interested in their particular ideology than fact. It's like trying to convince a fundamentalist christian that evolution is a better theory to explain the biological diversity on our planet - they aren't interested in evidence.<br /><br />AFAIK it is a fairly commonly held belief amongst evolutionary biologists that the move to an omnivorous diet containing a significant amount of meat was one of the key factors in the rapid increase in brain size among early hominids, leading to the gradual development of Homo sapiens. Without the extra nutrition (proteins, fats, etc) gained from eating yummy animals we may still be naked and hairy, crawling around on the savannah digging up roots and foraging for berries, picking lice off each other.Latsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2830084253401570472.post-72634243997494703552012-01-16T10:33:39.277+13:002012-01-16T10:33:39.277+13:00That's the one!That's the one!Eric Cramptonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15831696523324469713noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2830084253401570472.post-23810312706645017172012-01-16T10:33:30.100+13:002012-01-16T10:33:30.100+13:00We wouldn't have pointy incisors if eating mea...We wouldn't have pointy incisors if eating meat weren't biologically natural for us.Eric Cramptonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15831696523324469713noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2830084253401570472.post-18754598228052603872012-01-16T10:33:03.671+13:002012-01-16T10:33:03.671+13:00Anything pastured, feedlot beef if the stocking de...Anything pastured, feedlot beef if the stocking density isn't too high, dairy if the animals get time outside. Not caged chickens.Eric Cramptonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15831696523324469713noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2830084253401570472.post-15222194267283442742012-01-16T09:19:40.884+13:002012-01-16T09:19:40.884+13:00Btw, is this the Google-plus conversation you were...Btw, is this the Google-plus conversation you were looking for? (I hope that link works)<br /><br />https://plus.google.com/107475727645912993113/posts/S58YNvc44dTRyanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10371590342642381020noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2830084253401570472.post-85519800335534833912012-01-16T08:53:20.237+13:002012-01-16T08:53:20.237+13:00Apparently you get vitamin B12 from red meat, orga...Apparently you get vitamin B12 from red meat, organ meats, eggs and milk. With small amounts from certain vegetables and beans, but so small that you still require a vitamin supplement to avoid vitamin deficiency. So turns out it isn't all that "natural" to be a strict vegan. I guess it could be possible for the world to become vegetarians that consume lots of eggs and milk though.Kurthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09167836274159328048noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2830084253401570472.post-68525454036409675952012-01-16T07:58:12.843+13:002012-01-16T07:58:12.843+13:00So which animals are most likely to have enjoyed p...So which animals are most likely to have enjoyed positive lifetime utility? (I'm guessing sheep from the above.) <br /><br />Looks like the US made at least a little progress towards removing some subsidies this year -- Congress inexplicably allowed the ethanol credit to expire in an election yearRyanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10371590342642381020noreply@blogger.com