tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2830084253401570472.post6230430873595916166..comments2024-03-28T09:22:36.967+13:00Comments on Offsetting Behaviour: Paretian cetaceanEric Cramptonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15831696523324469713noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2830084253401570472.post-39694107365540790562014-01-08T14:34:07.353+13:002014-01-08T14:34:07.353+13:00Great question; don't know well enough.Great question; don't know well enough.Eric Cramptonhttp://offsettingbehaviour.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2830084253401570472.post-1558353834532924992014-01-08T14:14:10.819+13:002014-01-08T14:14:10.819+13:00How would this interact with Maori traditional use...How would this interact with Maori traditional uses of beached whales? (Which, by the way, is a good counterpoint to claims that any usage of post-beaching whales is taboo to the New Zealand left...)Charlesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2830084253401570472.post-82633965005243100582014-01-07T16:41:33.557+13:002014-01-07T16:41:33.557+13:00There is plenty of evidence for cetacean intellige...There is plenty of evidence for cetacean intelligence. Dolphins can recognised their own reflection as themself. We generally can't until 2 years old. There are not huge gapsCamnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2830084253401570472.post-620827677780724932014-01-07T14:00:20.476+13:002014-01-07T14:00:20.476+13:00Point taken on 1.
On 2, I'm hardly expert. ...Point taken on 1. <br /><br /><br />On 2, I'm hardly expert. But for present purposes, we have plenty of evidence that plenty of people think whales cute/smart enough to make killing them repugnant. Whether they really are or not is kinda beside the point. Flipping to killing "gonna die anyway suicidal whales" ought to placate the more rational parts of the "let's not kill whales" movement in the world in which whales are not intelligent, and avoids killing intelligent creatures that wish not to die in the world in which whales are intelligent. Either way, seems a good idea, if practicable.<br /><br /><br />If you knew more about whether the kinds of whales that like killing themselves are the kinds of whales that are deemed tasty, that would be useful too!Eric Cramptonhttp://offsettingbehaviour.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2830084253401570472.post-3842878557162493782014-01-07T10:46:43.552+13:002014-01-07T10:46:43.552+13:00Headline in local rag says that DOC is having to E...Headline in local rag says that DOC is having to Euthanase many of the recently beached whales - a cost to the taxpayer. So your idea, Eric, if applied wisely, could save NZ Inc some $$ also.VMCnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2830084253401570472.post-22765714824740044882014-01-06T23:38:15.906+13:002014-01-06T23:38:15.906+13:00Thanks for those.
1) I'd thought the Japanes...Thanks for those. <br /><br />1) I'd thought the Japanese were stockpiling tons of unwanted whale meat in warehouses as well. I suppose it's possible for both to be happening at the same time if the Minkes are tastier?<br /><br />2) I haven't a ready cite on whale intelligence, but I'd thought it pretty commonly accepted that whales are pretty bright. People > great apes > {whales / dolphins / parrots / octopus} > pigs / dogs > cows > sheep > {chicken / salmon}, no? Douglas Adams would put Mice and Dolphins at the top of the list...<br /><br />3) It can't be the only reason, but it does prevent solutions based on shouting at them.<br /><br />4) I totally didn't know about that. Idea seemed too good to have been original to me. The linked cable notes an allowable catch but doesn't tie it to the suicidal whales - had Palmer tried that and failed, or had the Greens gotten mad about basically running a quota system on all whaling rather than restricting whaling to suicidal whales?<br /><br />You're arguing the impossibility of the Paretian Cetacean; you could be right. Then again, sometimes it only seems really hard to help everybody and make everybody happy.... http://adventuretime.wikia.com/wiki/Memories_of_Boom_Boom_Mountain/TranscriptEric Cramptonhttp://offsettingbehaviour.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2830084253401570472.post-5096482271431521542014-01-06T22:53:16.714+13:002014-01-06T22:53:16.714+13:00A few points:
1) "nobody really wants to eat...A few points:<br /><br />1) "nobody really wants to eat whale meat". Not true. If there is no demand then why is Japan importing 30ton per year from Norway and Iceland? (http://news.livedoor.com/topics/detail/8349103/ (Japanese))<br /><br />2) "a bunch of intelligent animals". Citation needed on this one.<br /><br />3) "the rest of the world backed Japan into a corner where it would be embarrassing to stop doing it because they can't stop it without being seen to have lost this fight". Do you think that is why Japan continues to whale? You can't think of any other reasons?<br /><br />4) Geoffrey Palmer (as IWC Commisioner) tried to negotiate a similar solution a few years back, but it was leaked by Wikileaks (https://www.wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/09STATE124245_a.html) and there was pretty huge backlash. The Greens (amongst others) were adamantly opposed, destroying any chance of a compromise. Many opponents of whaling are opposed to all whale consumption on ideological grounds, so a Pareto-improving solution is a non-starter.Kiwi Poll Guynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2830084253401570472.post-63259787320927983502014-01-06T22:42:36.539+13:002014-01-06T22:42:36.539+13:00Which whale seems more likely to want to live: the...Which whale seems more likely to want to live: the one frolicking in the ocean, or the one that beaches itself repeatedly? Mistakes are possible, sure. But we'd surely be shifting to killing fewer whales that want to live by focusing whaling on the beachers...Eric Cramptonhttp://offsettingbehaviour.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2830084253401570472.post-14788109652950545032014-01-06T22:37:43.000+13:002014-01-06T22:37:43.000+13:00I suppose someone would want some sort off proof t...I suppose someone would want some sort off proof that the NZ whales really want to die, as opposed to dieing by mistake in a way that might confuse mere humans into mistaking their error for suicide.VMCnoreply@blogger.com